nuts. It's good to be back. Join me at 6
>> on your radio, on the LBC app, and
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>> leading Britain's conversation. This is
LBC.
[Music]
>> From Global's newsroom at 6:00,
successful asylum seekers will be
temporarily blocked from trying to bring
their families to the UK to join them.
The home secretary has been laying out
plans to tighten rules to deter small
boat crossings. Iette Cooper has also
promised to end the use of asylum
hotels, but says the process can't be
rushed.
>> We need to close all asylum hotels, and
we need to do so for good. But that must
be done in a controlled and orderly
manner and not through a return to the
previous government's chaos that led to
the opening of hotels in the first
place. reform and some Tory MPs say she
should look at leaving or suspending the
European Convention on Human Rights. A
man who assaulted a police officer in
Essex has avoided prison. The attack
happened during a protest outside a
hotel housing asylum seekers in Essics.
A plane carrying European Commission
President Ursula Fondonderion has landed
safely after it was hit by GPS jamming
over Bulgaria. A spokesperson has blamed
Russia. And summer 2025 was officially
the UK's warmest on record. The mean
average was 16.10 degrees Celsius, which
beats the last record set in 2018. In
the city, the Footsie 100 is closed up
nine points at 9196. The pound buys $135
and €1.15.
LBC weather showers becoming confined to
northern and western areas as well as
southern coasts tonight. Mostly dry with
clear spells elsewhere, but heavy rain
in the southwest by dawn. Lows of 10
degrees. From Global's newsroom. For
LBC, I'm Amelia Cox.
>> This is LBC from Global, leading
Britain's conversation.
It's 6 p.m. Now, tonight with Andrew
Mah. Good evening. Autumn. A new
political season begins. as it does. I
would like briefly to look back at this
summer because if you viewed it mostly
through social media, you know it has
been a very angry one. Great crowds of
flag waving patriots against the asylum
hotels and passionate crowds of
anti-fascists against them. And further
down the street, the pro-Israelis
against the Gaza campaigners. Oh yes,
and all those little films you see about
London is over. Britain is finished.
So much anger, so much hate, so much
despair. And what I want to say is that
all this is not in general bad or wicked
people trying to turn us against one
another. No, this is what the algorithms
are designed for. Social media is
selling ringside seats for a carnival of
hatred, a spectacle designed to tear us
all apart. And my plea is don't let's
fall for this. Personally, I think that
if Labor doesn't solve the migration
crisis, it'll be turfed out at the next
election. Simple as that. But if you put
away social media and you walk out into
the streets and you look at actual real
three-dimensional people, they mostly
smile back at you. And if you look
around you, you don't hear much
screaming or you don't see a collapsing
country. You see perfectly decent,
ordinary people rubbing along, getting
on with their lives. and inclined by and
large to rather like each other. Now
that is Britain. That is the real us.
Let us not be fooled.
But the border crisis is real. If Labor
can't stop the boats, and so far they
can't, then they'll be kicked out and
reform or reform and the tourists will
come in and do it a different way.
Ministers I think do understand this
which is why the first big parliamentary
moment came today in the past few hours
with the home secretary Iet Cooper on
that very subject. She told the Commons
she was tightening the rules about
family members of asylum seekers being
allowed into the country.
>> We do need to address the immediate
pressures on local authorities and the
risks from criminal gangs using family
reunion as a pull factor to encourage
more people onto dangerous boats.
Therefore, we are bringing forward new
immigration rules this week to
temporarily suspend new applications
under the existing dedicated refugee
family reunion route. Until the new
framework is introduced, refugees will
be covered by the same family migration
rules and conditions as everyone else.
>> All very well. But it seems to me that
the biggest shift in policy we've seen
around the borders and immigration came
from the senior cabinet minister Pat
McFaten. He has been dropping broad
hints that Britain will move towards a
full-scale ID card system, a digital
one. That would mean illegal migrants
couldn't get work in the black economy
nearly as easily and that would remove
one of the biggest pull factors that
make the UK so different from many other
European countries. Candidly, I think
this is essential. So, let's hear now
from Peter Hyman, who used to work with
Tony Blair and authored Labour's five
missions alongside Gearstarmama. He's
just started a new Substack, changing
the story, and he's now another
advocate, I think, of digital ID cards.
Peter, for people listening, this might
seem a bit abstract, ID cards. Why do
you think it matters so much?
>> It matters because you need to know to
start with who's in the country and what
they're up to and whether they're
accessing services or not. So, one of
the pull factors to Britain is unlike a
lot of other countries in Europe, or
most of them, probably all of them,
there isn't an ID card. So people can
disappear as you've said into the black
economy. So at the moment it's actually
useful for most citizens to have it all
in one place. Driving license, anything.
>> So it's not very controversial in a way
it might have been years ago to say
actually let's consolidate this all in
one place. Let's make it digital. Again,
when Blair tried it 20 years ago, there
wasn't the digital capacities to do
this. So, it seems to be a no-brainer
and will add to the firepower in
tackling illegal asylum.
>> In very, very broad terms, do you agree
with what I said? I said earlier on that
I thought that if Labour couldn't deal
with the migration crisis, it was
doomed.
>> Yes. Boats and hotels have to be dealt
with because they're a symbol of loss of
control that lots of people have and the
hotels in towns a symbol of decline. uh
and so it has to be completely uh sorted
and it is fuel for reform. When I've
spoken to reform voters, they've got
other issues now they try and campaign
on but it all stems from the boats issue
and that's what they build out of. So it
has to be gripped.
>> Peter in your Substack you're as it were
trying to give helpful advice to the
government and when it comes to the
migration crisis you're looking for a
complete step change. It's there needs
to be a step change and I think the
biggest strategic decision this autumn
is whether the prime minister believes
that the home office in the way that it
operates and all of the levers it's got
to pull is going to solve it or whether
like other issues in the past you need
to take it out of the home office have a
ring fence unit a multiddisciplinary
team with all the best people you can
gather together have it report to the
prime minister bit like the vaccine task
force did at a time of emergency my view
is you've got to treat it that seriously
ly and have that amount of prime
ministerial firepower in order to cut
through.
>> Well, you put it like that and it sounds
like a no-brainer. Is this the kind of
thing that you would like to see for
Karma's conference speech? That plus ID
cards marking a genuine change.
>> I think you've got to have that. You've
got to have ID cards. You've got to have
not business as usual diplomacy. The
oneinone out is not good enough. You've
got to say, and obviously part of this
is a legacy of Brexit. We used to be
able to if someone came we could take
them back to where they came. Now
they're going into French waters because
we're outside the EU. So it's a
consequence of that. But we can't just
believe this one in one hour is fast
enough or good enough to achieve what we
want to do.
>> Well, we'll see what happens. But today
Karma is talking about the second phase
of his premiership and there's been this
change of of the guard inside number 10.
And it seems to me that one of the most
striking things is that he has created a
completely new job which is uh chief
secretary to the prime minister. I've
never heard of this before. I don't
think it's ever existed before. No.
>> Um and it it's going to be the guy who
was number two to Rachel Reeves who
understands therefore how Whiteall
works. Do you do you really understand
what this is all for? What
>> it evolve what it's for? I would
imagine. But I think it's a good idea.
It's uh innovation and it's someone who
can really drive through who's got both
the politics and he's got a background
in business and elsewhere where he
actually knows how to get things done.
So he will be knocking on doors of
departments. Hopefully he'll be creating
these sort of ring fence teams that can
actually get the job done. So his job is
to say this isn't fast enough. This
isn't going going in the way that needs
to be and he will have the power to do
something about it. Now, if I was Rachel
Reeves going into a very very tough
order with the budget ahead and all the
rest of it, I might have been a bit
unsettled at losing my lieutenant. But
Darren Jones, I guess, is somebody who
understands all the where the bodies are
buried, understands the numbers and the
sums involved department by department
and therefore he's ideal to be the prime
minister's enforcer.
>> Yes, it's a difficult time if you're
Rachel Reeves to lose the chief
secretary who's part of that budget
making process, but there's a lot of
good people there um in the Treasury who
are working on the budget at the moment.
But the key thing is to have someone the
prime minister can trust
>> who can start to cut through all the
blockages in Whiteall and I'm hoping
will start to do more joined up
government, make it more digital, bring
in more outsiders which are sometimes
resisted by senior civil servants so
that you've got a very different way of
doing government.
>> Well, let's hope so. Peter Heyman, thank
you very much indeed for that.
>> Now, of course, there is more to life
and governing than migration. From
today, working parents earning up to
£100,000 a year are going to be entitled
to 30 hours of free child care every
week during term time for children from
the age of 9 months until they start
school. And that will affect more than
half a million children. Baroness Jackie
Smith, the Minister for Women in
Equalities and former Home Secretary
under Tony Blair, came to speak with me
about this important news. But first, I
wanted to get her reaction to research
from the charity Cororum, saying that
some of the poorest families in society
won't be eligible for this help.
>> Well, it is really important news and
can I say actually well done to the
sector because let's not forget the last
Tory government had made a pledge to
increase child care but had no plan in
place to deliver it. So the fact that
we've been able to work as hard as we
have done with providers increased
numbers of them this year as you say to
provide that 30 hours increased
entitlement of child care to children is
really important but it's a start and
you know I mean I think it's right that
there is the focus uh on people who are
working because this is both important
for children but it's also important for
the economy to enable us to get more
children into childare But given that
this is really the leg up that for a lot
of young children as they start primary
school this is absolutely essential to
their development. Why? What's the logic
of keeping behind those families where
the the income is very very low? In
other words, the poorest are not going
to be part of this and I can't work out
why.
>> Well, there is a 15-hour entitlement for
everybody, but this is the start uh
here. And of course there are other ways
that people on lower incomes are able to
get support for child care through their
universal uh credit for example or
supported in other ways to uh get
childare. But you're absolutely right
that what Bridget Phillipsson has been
really clear about is we've got to go
further than this. We've got to ensure
that children who are uh arriving in
school are ready to learn because that's
the way they're going to make the most
out of school and get the most uh in the
future. So when you say there's further
to go, uh Jackie, does that mean that
the poorest families will in due course
become part of this school?
>> Well, the poorest families are already
benefiting from the support that's being
provided for uh child care and through
other ways it through.
>> So you're saying in a sense they don't
need it?
>> Well, I'm not saying they don't need it,
but but when you need child care,
particularly of course is if you are
working. But what we need is an early
years system where children who are
going, whether or not it's for their 15
hours or for their 30 hours, are getting
even better quality than they're getting
at the moment. And that's what's going
to make a real difference to the most
disadvantaged children. The financial
support that the system provides for
them, but also the quality that we're
building into the system as well. Now,
this is a really, really important
story, but you know, we've both watched
the country over the course of the
summer, all these riots around migrant
hotels and all the disruption and and
turbulence. Um, and we've had the home
secretary today talking about new
measures to restrict the number of
people who can come here. But perhaps
the most important part of this has been
ID cards or digital ID cards. And Pat
McFaden, who's a senior cabinet
minister, obviously has been talking
about this recently. How important do
you think digital ID cards would be to
give people the sense that the
government had a grip on who was here
and what they were up to?
>> Well, there's a lot of things that I has
been talking about today in her
statement as to demonstrate the detailed
work that the government is undertaking
to uh put back capacity into the asylum
system to return 35,000 more people uh
this year than than uh last year. both
uh prisoners and those who have failed
um asylum cases. But she also did
mention that um there would also be a
ramping up of the enforcement of those
with a right to work. And that's people
using exactly that sort of digital ID in
order to to be able to check that people
have got an entitlement to work.
>> The trouble is more and more and more
people have been coming illegally here.
And we know that one of the reasons is
that unlike most European countries,
they can go straight into the black or
gray market and start to earn money as
uh you know delivery drivers or whatever
it might be. And that makes us different
from other European countries and
therefore the case for an ID card for
everybody. So that this cannot happen
seems to be absolutely crucial.
>> Well, Andrew, you you may well remember
you don't need to persuade me of the
significance.
>> Well, of course, because you were part
the Tony Blair government did exactly
this and then at the last minute it was
stopped.
>> No. Well, no, it was stopped by the Tory
government. Yeah. The first thing the
Tory government did was to remove the
ability to develop the sort of digital
ID scheme that we were developing. But
uh there is already so the home office
is already taking action on this already
um through b through biometric visas for
example through digital ID related to
the enforcement of working conditions.
>> These are important but relatively small
bits of it. Do you think this government
is going to introduce a digital ID card?
Well, I think the priority at the moment
is tackling the dreadful um uh criminal
gangs who are understandably concerning
people in the way in which they're both
they're both exploiting people and
they're also suggesting that our borders
are not secure in the way that people
want to see that they are. Now, they are
more secure than they were, but we know
that that has to be the first priority
in the work that we're doing.
>> How are they more secure? Because more
and more people are coming in. because
more people well first of all uh there I
mean that's just true
>> one of the things that Avet has been
able to announce to the house today when
she's been talking about what's been
happening over the summer is the
increased work that we're now able to do
with the French the change in law that
the French are doing to help to
>> but with respect none of this has
changed anything the numbers go up and
up and up we get these announcements
about smashing the gangs announcements
about the French and still the numbers
go up
>> and we are seeing more um uh more gangs
being tackled. We are seeing this. Yeah,
we there are larger numbers of uh
actions being taken for example by the
National Crime Agency in order to
>> mean the gangs remain resolutely
unsmacked. Well, there is there they
were allowed to get a foothold into our
immigration system over a period of not
just neglect by the last government, but
frankly irresponsible action such as
reducing the amount of um uh resource
that was being put into dealing with
asylum claims as quickly as they should
be. As a government, we have restored
those things. Of course, there's further
that we need to to go, Andrew. You know,
I'm as frustrated as very many other
people in the country about bringing
that to an end, but that was never going
to happen overnight given the way that
it had been allowed to really get the
foothold that it has done.
>> We've been talking about the home
secretary. One of the things that she's
said is that she wants to end all the
asylum hotels. Do you have a deadline
for that?
>> We've said as a government, we want to
close all the asylum hotels by the end
of this uh parliament. And of course, we
have already reduced the amount of money
that we're spending on asylum hotels,
and we've already reduced the number of
hotels.
By the end of this parliament, at the
next election, there will be no asylum
hotels in the UK.
>> We we we want to close asylum hotels as
much as others want to as well. And in
order to do that, you've got to tackle
at its roots through the sort of
unglamorous hard work that the home
office is uh doing both the pull factors
as you've uh identified, but also the
practicalities in terms of how you can
prevent people from getting into those
boats and coming here. That's why work
with the French uh is so important. work
that the last government failed to do,
whether or not it's agreements with the
French, with the Germans, uh returns
agreements in Iraq and and elsewhere,
those things are unglamorous. There is
not an easy way to solve this problem.
But as a vet Cooper has identified
today, there is an enormous amount of
work going on.
>> Like so many people around this
government, you remember the Blair years
very clearly. Would you like to see ID
cards for the UK? Look, uh I think the
priority as I've said is
>> you're dodging my question because the
answer is yes.
>> I wish the Tory government hadn't come
in and and as you know and proudly as
the first thing that they did done away
with with ID cards but my point Andrew
is you know it was never about the card.
It was about the digital ID and as Iette
has said today, we are already in the
home office is already using digital ID
to make sure that people are not able to
come here and just go into the labor
market in the way in which you've
described.
>> All right, Baroness Jackie Smith, thanks
so much for coming in.
>> Thank you.
>> And yes, the unmistakable sound of deck
chairs being hurriedly rearranged was
ringing around Westminster this morning
as the prime minister reshuffled Downing
Street officials. But how much should
the rest of us really care? You're
listening to Tonight with Andrew Mah.
Time now 6:19. This is LBC. PC.
Tonight with Andrew Mah. Watch live on
both Global Player and the new LBC app.
Right now, over the past few weeks,
there's been a lot of chatter about a
reshuffle. In British politics,
reshuffle means sacking and promoting
ministers. And that could be quite a big
deal. But today, so far, we haven't got
that kind of reshuffle. Instead, changes
inside number 10, which may matter in
the sense of making the government work
a bit better or may not. What's happened
and will it change the price of fish?
I'm joined now by Jonathan Ashworth,
former shadow cabinet minister and boss
of Labor together. And to reflect on the
problems of reshuffles more generally,
Simon Hart, the former conservative
chief whip. and listening to all of that
and joining me is LBC's own political
correspondent Aggie Shambre. Aggie, let
me just start with you with a couple of
the obvious headlines from this. First
of all, let's talk about Darren Jones.
Explain to people exactly what's
happened to him.
>> So Darren Jones was he was the chief
secretary to the Treasury. He
>> number two to Rachel Reeves in effect.
>> Number two to Rachel Reeves. He's the
guy that during the spending review he
was having all those meetings with
cabinet ministers saying well a lot of
the time saying no actually you can't
have that. So, it's a sort of mixed view
among cabinet ministers about Darren
Jones. He has been, I think it's fair to
say, although Andrew, it's honestly so
unclear, he has been promoted to chief
secretary to the prime minister. And if
you haven't heard that title before,
it's because, well, it didn't exist
until new job.
>> It's a completely new job. And so, he is
going to be, as far as I can tell, going
on the morning round a lot, doing a lot
of broadcast. He's going to be in charge
of various things in number 10 that
people are a bit confused by because
there are the type of things that he was
going to be involved with. people
thought maybe the prime minister should
be doing. So, a bit of confusion there.
He's going to be replaced by James
Murray, who was previously sort of the
deputy to Darren Jones.
>> Let's just stop with that one because
that's confusing enough. Um, we we hear
Jonathan that the prime minister, Kia
Star, is very frustrated that he can't
get more done, he can't be more
effective inside the machine. And I
think a lot of folks listening to this
will be saying, "Hang on a second. The
man is prime minister. Why should he be
frustrated?" Well, I mean, he is hoping
that these this reshuffle of his senior
staff in Downing Street gives him the
muscle and firepower to translate
promises he's made on the steps of
Downing Street into delivery on the
ground in people's communities and in
people's real lives. I think everybody
who walks into White Hall, walks in as a
minister, sort of assumes that there's a
sort of lever that can be bulled or a
button that can be pushed and that
somehow what they want to achieve
happens. And it doesn't work like that.
And I think what he's found frustrating
is that the system has been too inert
that there has been too much bureaucracy
and he will want Darren Jones to act as
a sort of enforcer across Whiteall
>> to put a bit of stick about to wield
some clout sort of bend the will of
Whiteall to his policy agenda and he
knows he's got to do it because he looks
at the opinion polls although the next
election is 2029 actually in Whiteall
terms you've got about 3 years now to
get this right. If you don't get it
right, you're in trouble.
>> And I think Aggie, somebody said to you
this is his last chance.
>> Indeed. So, I was asking somebody
whether this reset was going to work.
And this is somebody in government who
is always extremely loyal. They said,
"Well, it's got to because we're running
out of time."
>> Um, Simon, I started at the beginning of
this by saying that normally a reshuffle
is a reshuffle of ministers and frankly
the the public will only notice if the
chancellor of the exjecker or the home
secretary or whoever it is is moved. But
there are reasons why a prime minister
like Kam or any prime minister might be
cautious about reshuffles generally and
I think as former chief whip you know
why
>> there are many reasons why I think he
would be wise to be cautious and I mean
mate we've just touched on it here
there's a whole lot of names being
banded around which you know not even
I've heard of and and who are these
people and will they be resonating
across households across the UK will
people be thinking oh thank god for that
we've got a new chief secretary to the
PM every all is well in the world. Of
course not. All that matters is
outcomes. All that matters is outcomes.
And part of the problem here isn't the
bureaucratic machine grinding rather
slowly, although it probably does. It's
the fact that for years, and we're all
guilty of it, promises have been made of
instant gratification. Whatever the
problem is, we're going to solve it.
We're going to solve it quickly, and
we're going to solve it free of charge.
And guess what? It isn't that easy to
tackle these huge global problems just
in and so no wonder people get sort of
hacked off and they get sort of rather
impatient and as a result you can change
these people all the time but unless the
outcomes change won't make a job of
difference very interesting let me move
on to another big change which is
somebody called James Lions who's
director of communications an absolutely
crucial role and people will be thinking
back to the thick of it and Malcolm
Tucker and Alistister uh Campbell before
that uh all sorts of figures Gitto in
the years of Boris Johnson, big figures
who, as it were, spoke for the prime
minister, who bullied journalists,
should it be said, enticed them, gave
them scoops, guided them, and all the
rest of it. And it seems to me that Kia
Starmer doesn't really have anyone like
that.
>> So, James Lions was sharing the role
with Steph Driver, who's remained, and
actually she's very, very popular um
within government. But it's a bit
strange because he came in as this big
figure um to deal with the
communications of the government. and
quite quickly it seemed he was actually
just taking care of the long-term grid.
So, as you say, I think there has been
frustration within government that there
hasn't been this kind of big person
taking control. There is now a new
person supposedly taking control, Tim
Allen. He's a former adviser to Tony
Blair. He's returned um as executive
director of communications,
>> whatever that might mean. There's lots
of ex Blairites around again these days,
Jonathan, isn't it? Is this because when
you're looking around for expertise,
they were all I mean, it was the Blair
government, so you don't have much
choice.
>> Um, well, look, I mean, Tim Allen is a
man of considerable heft and experience
andalth and uh well, he's a successful
business person, and that's a good
thing. We we in the Labour Party are pro
being pro business,
>> intensely relaxed about people being
filthy rich
>> as long as they pay their taxes. uh
Andrew. So look, he he will bring in
strategic grip to communications. I
think James Lions who's moved on was
always planning to do about a year or so
>> anyway. But in the end, as Sim was
saying, you know, the the names, I mean,
interests us in Westminster because we
know or certainly us in the Labor Party
know these personalities. But in the
end, what matters will be policy
delivery and this government has got to
get on with sorting out the economy and
and easing the cost of living pressures,
the NHS, and indeed stopping the boats.
That's what it will be tested for.
>> Fair to say, Jonathan, that particularly
looking back over the summer, things
have not been working as they should.
>> In what way? I mean across government if
if they had been you wouldn't be needing
to be doing this.
>> Well I I don't think that I mean I don't
think that's fair. I mean what the
government would say that they are
beginning to turn around the oil tanker
of NHS waiting lists that on the
economy. Yes, we all know that people
are still finding it tough but interest
rates have been trending down. There's
more investment going into things like
childare which the government have been
talking about today. And of course I
think gradually as we build up towards
2028 or 2029 I believe people will see
those improvements in their lives and
the government I mean the government
needs to demonstrate must it absolutely
must. Simon you wrote a book about the
experiences of being chief whip. One of
the things we've noticed about this
government is that the gap between
number 10 and Labour MPs and their
sentiments particularly around the
welfare revolt was too wide. How
important do you think it is to you know
we've been talking about Darren Jones
one of his jobs is going to be
connecting with the parliamentary Labor
party
>> and I mean and I think the problem
strangely enough is worse the big with
the bigger majority um I think somebody
once said the perfect majority you want
as a government is about 30 um it's sort
of big enough to win your votes but
small enough for people to keep
concentrating and behaving themselves
once you've got one which is in three
figures or or whatever it is
>> so karma's majority is simply too big
>> well the trouble is with with the
majority there's a lot of people who
obviously worked out already that not
only are they not going to get a job
probably they're not going to get a
period probably and there's a pretty
good chance they won't even get
reelected possibly in 2028. So when
you've got that situation, you've got
groups of people who think I've got
nothing to lose here. I might as well
make a name for myself in whatever my
particular area is. And they can become
quite uh uh quite attractive um people
to go to if you're a journalist uh for
information about the information about
the the way things work and they've got
nothing. You know, we've all been there
the attempting lunches and and all that
sort of stuff and um it's uh that is
very difficult for the for the
government of the day to handle. So uh I
I as I say I think that we Jonathan's
right of course you know it is all about
in the delivery but the head of
communications what we were talking
about is only going to be worthless or
whoever they are as long as they've got
something to communicate and the problem
is when thing when the wheels fall off
you get to the situation where you start
having these lovely strategic visions
and trying to communicate then the
public and in the end you end up trying
to get through to Sunday without the
whole thing falling over and collapsing.
It's very often not the communication
but the vision in the first place that's
the problem. Let me ask about one other
person which is Baroness Manu Shafi who
was a deputy governor of the Bank of
England. She's been on this show herself
in the past and she's been appointed the
prime minister's economic adviser or
senior economic adviser. And it's quite
a bizarre thought that he hasn't had one
before. And a lot of people would look
at this government and say one of the
problems has been that the Treasury has
run so much and number 10 hasn't really
had a handle on the Treasury. And that's
going to be her job, I guess.
>> Yes. And I think it's interesting that
apparently Rachel Reeves behind the
scenes has been pushing K star to
actually implement an economics adviser
because if you think about it, it does
seem like it's sort of competing with
her patch and it does seem like he does
want a bit more control over the
economics and actually somebody
suggested that was part of what Darren
Jones is doing and actually Karma wanted
a bit more firepower and wanted a bit
more of someone to bat for him like
Rachel Reeves has in her department. Is
this all basically pre-budget stuff,
Jonathan? Do you think is I mean you
we're looking at a budget which is going
to be agonizingly difficult not just for
the chancellor but for the Labour party.
>> This is probably the most significant
budget of of the parliament. So
absolutely and I think number 10 wanted
economic firepower and capability
rebuilt in number 10. I would say that
you know I was a former special adviser
to Gordon Brown and the treasury I know
how the treasury operates. The treasury
is a bit like the queen on the
chessboard. it can move across the
chessboard and can dominate. Whereas
number 10 sort of moves one one like the
king moves one one space at a time.
There's asymmetric information. The
treasury know what's going on and if
they want to withhold from number 10
they can. So having heavyweight economic
uh capacity in 10 Downing Street is very
very important.
>> Fascinating. Really really interesting.
Thank you all very much indeed. Now, the
home secretary's setpiece migration
statement in the comments today was
closely followed by the foreign
secretary, David Lammy. Our political
editor was in the house watching him,
and she will be with me to give us a
summary of what he said. But first, the
time is 6:32 and Amelia Cox has your
news headlines.
>> A former home secretary has told LBC
that conservatives allowed criminal
gangs to get a foothold in the UK's
immigration system. Speaking on Tonight
with Andrew Mah, Baroness Jackie Smith
says the current Labor government wants
to go further on tackling small boat
crossings. A former MP who resigned
after facing allegations of sexual
misconduct has died aged 59. David
Wbertton represented the Summerton and
Froom constituency from 2015 until June
2023. He'd denied the allegations. And
the Met Office has confirmed that this
summer was the UK's warmest on record.
The mean average temperature was more
than 16° C, higher than the previous
record set in 2018. LBC weather showers
becoming confined to northern and
western areas as well as southern coasts
tonight. Mostly dry with clear spells
elsewhere, but heavy rain in the
southwest by dawn. Lows of 10°.
>> Nick Ferrari at breakfast on LBC. Do you
realize now that we have a government
that is prepared to employ legal advice
so that they can act against the
interests of the local people and for
the interests of arrivals or migrants?
That is the reality. We have a
government department that will sanction
the expenditure of fairly costly legal
representation to ensure that the
interests of the migrants surpass the
interests of the local people. That's
how this government chooses to treat the
electorate. Nick Ferrari at breakfast.
Back tomorrow morning from 7. Listen on
your radio, on Global Player, and the
new LBC app.
This is LBC. Message Andrew Mah on
WhatsApp now on 034560973.
It's 6:35. Shortly after the Home
Secretary's Commons address on migration
this afternoon, the foreign secretary
David Lambi took to the dispatch box to
discuss Gaza. Our political editor,
Natasha Clark, was in the comments
listening to what he had to say. And
Natasha, I guess the crucial thing is
that the British government is still on
course to recognize a Palestinian state.
>> Yeah, absolutely. There was no relenting
from David Lammy in his statement to the
House of Commons just a few minutes ago.
He's actually still speaking now, but he
basically is saying we will still press
ahead with our plans to recognize the
state of Palestine. That's going to
happen later at the UN General Assembly.
There's other nations including France
who are spearheading this plan alongside
Britain where we are basically going to
say that that is going to happen
essentially no matter what. Um, there
was some very stark words from David
Lammy in the comments there talking
about exactly why we need to act now and
some very implicit and explicit
criticism of Netanyahu basically saying
that his offensive in Gaza City is
making the whole thing worse, making
peace far less likely. Um, but listen to
this, Andrew. 130,000 people at risk of
starvation in Gaza within the next year.
300 people who have already died of
starvation and 190 children.
>> And he called it a man-made famine. I
think
>> he did. Yeah, he said it was man-made.
He said, "This is something that we can
stop and basically vowed to do all he
could to to put pressure on the
Netanyahu government to try to make sure
that would not happen." He hit back too
at those who say that this would just
reward Hamas. He says it will do no such
thing. He talks about how security comes
from stable borders. But make no
mistake, Andrew, this is going to be a
huge political fight for him. On one
hand, he had Labour MPs urging him to go
far further in Gaza. Um he's defended
the government's record, saying, "We've
already suspended trade negotiations.
we've already sanctioned Israel to the
extent we can do so. But on the other
hand, you have pretty Patel, the
conservatives, others saying actually
this is the wrong road to go by. You
have the hostage families as well who
are very unhappy with the situation of
trying to recognize Palestinians
Palestine as a state at this point.
>> Yeah. Um I thought the the really
interesting thing about this, you know,
we're always looking at government
trying to work out how gritty, how tough
it is. Now, they've been under huge
pressure from the United States and from
Israel to pull back from this policy and
they haven't.
>> Yeah, absolutely. And it's actually
really interesting the way that Kstarma
has balanced this between Donald Trump
and you know remember when he was sort
of asked about this when Trump was over
um in the UK over the summer. He very
very easily dodged those questions and
was able to basically defend his policy
even with the fact that Donald Trump and
their secretary of state completely
disagreeing with it. And I'm sure that
that will come up at Donald Trump's
state visit when he comes over. I'm sure
that's going to be absolutely at the at
the height of tensions around
recognizing Palestine. I'm glad you said
that because we're going to come on to
talk about that with an American
commentator very shortly. Indeed. But
one last question. Um, since we last
talked, we've of course had the your
party breakaway as it were. Jeremy, not
breakaway because he'd left. He'd been
kicked out already, but Jeremy Corbyn
and Sultana
>> spin-off party.
>> Spin-off. Spin-off party. Leftwing
party. Does that change, do you think,
the politics of Gaza at all?
>> I think it just heightens the the
pressure on Saki Starama. And he was
already facing it. Let's be honest, he
has always faced pressure from the left
of wing of the Labour party on this. But
this brings it completely to the front.
Jeremy Corbyn and Zara Sultana's new
outlet is absolutely an sort of pro uh
Gaza, pro Palestine party that will only
heap further pressure on the prime
minister and he is already facing a vote
fragmentation on this party.
>> Indeed, and they're doing quite well in
the polls early days, Natasha, thank you
very much indeed for that. Meanwhile, an
overwhelming majority of genocide
scholars has concluded that Israel's
actions in Gaza do meet the definition
of genocide. to talk about that and
Britain's path towards recognizing a
Palestinian state. I'm joined by the
leadish leading Turkish American
commentator and Democrat Jenk Huga.
Jenk, thank you very much indeed for
joining the show. Um, first of all, this
uh declaration about genocide, uh, it
may not surprise people who've been
studying the situation, does it make a
difference, do you think?
>> Well, look, we give Israel way too much
latitude to begin with. Uh, this is not
an interesting debate. It's obviously a
genocide and all of their talking points
uh are the same talking points that you
know that every country or empire that
has ever committed a genocide uses. So
in the Armenian genocide, the Ottoman
Empire said, "Oh, they were hiding
behind their civilians. We were doing
self-defense. We had to move them for
their own good and our own good." So
these are all the same things we've
heard before, ethnic cleansing and
genocide. uh the monstrous actions of
the Israeli government would really be
classified as terrorism if it was any
government other than Israel. We
constantly make special exemptions for
them. And at this point, people are
rightly beginning to ask why. Why do we
have to make all sorts of special
exemptions for Israel? We don't. They're
committing a genocide and it's
abominable. We should act very
aggressively against it. So, uh, your
president, I say yours, uh, lightly, uh,
Donald Trump is still chasing a Nobel
Peace Prize, and one of the things he
keeps talking about is the peace
negotiations around Israel and Gaza.
Where are they now? What where are they
left?
>> Well, so Hamas has accepted Netanyahu's
terms, so we should have a ceasefire
right now. Uh, but of course, as soon as
they did, Netanyahu changed the
goalpost. Uh, that's what he always
does. Now he went from uh let's do this
in phases to now oh okay you accepted
the phase portion now I'm saying I'm
going to do it lump sum and you know why
and everybody knows why because he
doesn't want peace he's the one that's
been blocking peace the entire time and
we all know the internal politics of
Israel if he loses the right-wing uh
honestly the the Ben Gabe and Smote Rich
are outright fascists and obviously
racist and obviously genocidal and but
if he loses their support he loses the
government he can't win re-election and
he might go to
So he's not basically smoke rich and
Bengaviro running this government.
Nanyahu is very happily going along. He
has said that his mission is a greater
Israel. He talks about Judea and
Samaria. Uh and he said and they've
already voted that Palestine is never
going to be allowed to exist. So what is
this? What you're going to keep 5 a half
million Palestinian prisoners for the
rest of our lives and we're supposed to
accept that they're your prisoners and
hostages and you're going to run a
dictatorial government in the West Bank
and Gaza Strip. And now you say there is
no chance for peace. And one last thing,
even the Israelis now, all the scholars,
their military, etc. are admitting and
leaking to the press that yes, uh,
Netanyahu put an unachievable objective
of basically eliminating every Hamas
member. Uh, they know that they can't do
that. That's not a thing that can be
done. And the point is so that we never
get to peace. Why? There already have
75% of Gaza. They're going to try to
take 100%. And meanwhile, um, as we both
know, um, settlers are pushing further
and further into the West Bank. There's
more and more trouble there. More and
more, uh, Arab people are being killed
there. Um, what do you think this means
longer term for the future of the state
of Israel? Is this lethal for Israel?
>> So, look, first of all, uh, they do so
much propaganda. One of them is, oh my
god, Israel's a right to exist and
people are going to come wipe us out.
Nobody's wiping out Israel. They have
nuclear weapons. They've they're the
only country in the world that has Iron
Dome. Uh they curiously had a standown
order for 6 hours on October 7th.
Otherwise, they're nearly an
impenetrable country. They also have a
bigger and and more lethal military than
the rest of the Middle East combined.
So, there is no existential threat to
Israel at all. It is either utter
delusional paranoia by the Israelis or
just outright propaganda to make it seem
like they're the ones in danger. No,
they are not, David. They are Goliath
and they are crushing everyone around
them. And yes, you're right. Uh they're
now having a discussion reported by
Axios just yesterday. Should they uh
annex the West Bank 10%, 30% or 60%. So
they're going to annex the West Bank as
well. They they're setting up greater
Israel. Uh unless you have this weirdo
special exemption for Israel in your
head, what they're doing is super
obvious. They're taking the land of
their neighbors and pretending it's
self-defense.
Uh, let me turn to American politics
because I know you cover that a lot as
well. Um, and I was noticing that you
are becoming increasingly worried that
Donald Trump is entirely serious about
trying to go for a third term, whatever
the Constitution says.
Yeah. So, Donald Trump has authoritarian
tendencies. That's why I voted against
him. I worked hard against him. Uh, and
and I'm a guy who does not like the
establishment. So the standard
politicians like Marco Rubio on the
right, but also Joe Biden, Kla Harris on
the left. But nevertheless, Donald Trump
is a fake populist and he came in here
and his authorit authoritarian
tendencies are now in full display. He's
bringing out the military and US
streets. It's ridiculous. Making us look
like a developing nation. Uh and there's
absolutely no need for it. Talking about
a third term. Does he mean it? Of course
he means it. What he does is he
constantly tests the limits of his
power. And if you don't meet that test
head on, he just takes more and more and
more. And look, he look connected in two
stories, will he be able to do it? Well,
uh, for a while, he had this lock on
his, uh, voters, and a lot of you might
still think that he does. No. I'm here
to report from on the ground in America
that especially for independents but
even some uh you know Republican voters
when they see him covering up the
Epstein list when they see him doing
whatever Netanyahu orders him to do uh
they don't like it at all and it's
obviously not America first. So the more
that he's Israel first the more
credibility he loses. And so that's your
only silver lining in that otherwise
disastrous scenario.
>> Absolutely fascinating. What about what
do you um think when you see Tony Blair
coming over to advise Donald Trump on
the future of Gaza? Because you know
there has been this discussion about
whether the population would be moved
out temporarily and then brought into
some rebuilt version of Gaza. What do
you make of all of that?
>> All right. So when I see Tony Blair
coming in, I think, oh no, not again. So
look, let's be honest. Tony Blair was
among the people who helped start the
Iraq war. And at the time, Israel said
Iraq was their number one enemy. Iraq
had not attacked America or the UK. Uh
they not only did they were they not
part of al-Qaeda, they fought against
al-Qaeda. They obviously did not have
weapons of mass destruction. That's the
lie that Israel tells about every one of
their uh enemies. And so now what's the
lie being pushed? Oh, Iran has weapons
of mass destruction. We America and the
UK, all of you have to go to war on
behalf of Israel. It's sickening. And
Tony Blair is a cheerleader for that.
So, I see that as a disastrous turn of
events. I don't think that he's an
honest actor. He's probably representing
Israel's interest there. He's not going
to want to go towards peace. So, we we
got more war coming. I mean, Israel just
murdered the prime minister of Yemen and
his entire cabinet. The Houthis had had
control of Yemen. They're the real
government of Yemen. And Israel just
murdered all of them because they feel
like they have a right to murder anyone
they like. And then we all have to go,
"Oh, well, yo, special exemption Israel.
You can do anything you like." No. So, I
I'm super worried about Blair
representing Israeli interest there.
>> We're We're almost out of time, Jen. But
one final question. Donald Trump's
coming over to the UK pretty soon on a
big visit. What do you think he wants
out of us?
>> Look, he's got his usual things. He's
he's obsessed with the tariffs. He's
he's probably going to want to talk
about his golf courses. I mean, he's
just he's a legendary con man. Uh so,
and and this whole thing of how you have
to ingratiate yourself. Look, if he's
signing up for American interest, uh I'm
America through and through and I'm very
happy about that. Like, for example, if
there's a tariff and we do reciprocal
tariffs, that makes sense. But when he's
a madman and out on his own and for
himself, I'm not interested in it. So,
buckle up. Brace for impact. He's
probably going to ask things you can't
give. Okay, Jen Yuga, thank you very
much indeed for talking to LBC tonight.
Now then, coming up, we're going to hear
about a man who groped a young Queen
Camila with serious consequences for his
crown jewels. The time now, 6:47.
>> Coming up at 7, Ian Dale, leading
Britain's conversation. Next on LBC.
That's
>> tonight with Andrew Mah. Listen on your
smart speaker. Just say, "Play LBC."
6:49. Now, I began the show today by
reflecting on the scenes of turbulence
and violence we've seen on the streets
of Britain over the summer. Is this, as
some commentators have suggested, the
beginning of some kind of English
revolution, or is it simply the
combination of hot weather and a bit of
specific political frustration? Here's
LBC's Shiovana Sharma reporting from the
Bell Hotel in Eping on what it all means
for social cohesion.
>> The Bell Hotel was once a quiet,
unassuming spot for tourists, but it's
become the catalyst for deep tensions
and protests here in Eping and right
across the country. It's been housing
asylum seekers on and off since 2020.
But it was the events of July this year
that sparked unrest and protests in the
community when an asylum seeker was
accused of sexually assaulting a
14-year-old girl. We've spent time in
the community and outside the hotel
itself to check the temperature with
residents and local officials. Like
Holly Whitbred, a conservative counselor
for Eping Forest District Council, which
successfully fought for an interim
injunction on the hotel's housing of
asylum seekers.
>> The opening of the hotel did lead to
concerns within the community. We had
two incidents, an alleged sexual
assault. There was alleged arson as well
and and numerous other issues, too. One
of the arguments I've made consistently
throughout this, it's not the job of the
local authority or residents in Eping to
house asylum seekers. It's not our job
to work out where the government should
put these people while they are being
processed. Actually, being here outside
the hotel, it is completely gated up.
There's a security guard out front and
in such close proximity to a busy main
road, it's clear that all eyes are still
very much on the Bell Hotel. Within the
space of only 20 minutes, multiple
people have been pulling down their car
windows to shout, "Send them back." But
not everyone feels that way. Some
residents feel concerned by how protests
in some instances have resulted in
violence, intimidation, and arrests.
>> When violence is involved in these
protests and it's having a go at the
police and it's people getting um like
physically assaulted and we're doing it
in the name of women and girls, that's
when I have the issue. And when you hear
about, you know, a number of arrests um
made across the various uh weeks, when
you hear about violence, do you feel,
you know, that the social fabric in this
community in Eping has broken down?
>> Yeah. No, it absolutely has because you
read these things online, you read this
language, you read people who are
saying, "Let them drown in the channel."
And it's very hard to have community
relations with people that you know
think that this isn't just an a
difference of opinion or a difference of
taste. This is actual what it comes down
to and what you believe to be human and
what you believe to be right and moral.
And when you're um living in a town and
the your soles apart in your opinion, it
is very difficult. Since the home office
and the owners of the Bell Hotel
successfully overturned the injunction
at the Court of Appeal, asylum seekers
can now remain at the Bell Hotel before
a full hearing in October. Richard Ty,
the deputy leader of Reform UK, says
this is an outrage. Ultimately, we've
got a government that on the one hand
pretends it wants to stop hotel use, but
on the other hand is saying actually we
need the hotels and the rights of the
migrants uh they outweigh the rights of
British citizens.
>> Even if the hotel does get shut down
permanently, the residents that I've
spoken to here in Eping don't feel like
the dent in the social fabric will be
mended overnight.
>> Well, that was LBC's Shivani Sharma
reporting from Eping. And we should say
that the man accused of sexual assault
in Eping has denied all allegations.
Now, if you're at all interested in the
British monarchy and politics, and I am,
the book of the season is Valentine
Loe's Power and the Palace: The Inside
Story of the Monarchy and 10 Downing
Street. From it, we've learned that the
late Queen, although she kept her
council at the time, was never a fan of
Brexit. And we've learned that when a
pervert tried it on with a current queen
when she was a teenager, Camila took off
her shoe and whacked him in the nuts.
This is, I have to say, rather what I
would have expected from both of them.
Valentine joins me now. Congratulations
in the book. A very very entertaining
read so far, I have to say. Um, let
let's start with the high politics and
Brexit and all of that. I don't suppose
anybody would be surprised to hear the
queen was not a fan of Brexit. I think
we probably assumed it at the time, but
she was very very careful.
>> I I'd say on the contrary, there's been
a lot a certain amount of push back, I
think, for those who are devoted to
Brexit. The mere suggestion that the
queen had any doubts about it. So you
and I might think it's not surprising.
Uh but um the true believers don't
believe that.
>> I guess I think it's not surprising
because I think she was always a small C
conservative as well as often a big one,
but a small C conservative and she liked
things as they were to stay as they
were. I think that's absolutely right. I
mean, I think she had doubts about the
EU. I think she thought some of the
bureaucracy was ridiculous, but on the
whole, she wanted things to say stay as
they were, and she saw no merit in
changing them.
>> Now, it's unthinkable in a sense, but
had this all come out at the time, do
you think it would have changed
anything?
>> It's a very interesting question. I
mean, you know, 4852, it's a close run
thing. It might have swung things a bit.
Certainly.
>> Gosh. and uh Boris Johnson. Um again, um
we we know a lot about the relationship
between the two of them and again my
assumption has been that she found him a
bit of a strange fish and she was highly
suspicious. But there's another side to
that. She was quite interested as well.
>> Yes. Malcolm Riiffken uh says how long
after Malcolm Riiffken ceased being a
minister, he was with the queen and he
asked her what she thought of her prime
minister Boris Johnson and she said he
she was finding him a rather interesting
person and she uh spoke about a bit in
the Queen's speech which the last line
that year's Queen's speech which was all
about encouraging the education of girls
around the world and she approved of
that and it's not often that you hear uh
the queen expressing an opinion about
the contents of the queen's speech.
>> Certainly is not. Um, let me turn to uh
the highly amusing and interesting story
about Queen Camila, the current queen.
Um, so she's about 16 or 17 years old, I
think, at the time, and she's traveling
on a train to Paddington. Just pick up
the story.
>> She's traveling on a train to Par
Paddington, and someone starts groping
her. We don't know exactly what happens,
but we don't need to know. What we do
need to know is what happens next. In
Camila's own words, she did what her
mother taught her. She took off her shoe
and whacked him in the nuts. Uh
>> presumably effectively enough to stop
whatever was going on.
>> Yeah. But in a way, the interesting
thing about the story, as well as the
robust and amusing uh uh response by the
young Camila is what she did at the end
of the journey. She went to find a man
in uniform, said what had happened and
the misgreant was arrested, which showed
great uh strength of character and
presence of mind and in good civic
responsibility.
>> Those are the days when you could find a
man in a uniform and then he'd he'd
arrest somebody. But there we are. Um
what do you think this does to her
reputation?
>> Nothing but good. Uh a former colleague
of mine said the other said said about
this that it's the best PR she's had for
years. I mean, we all most most people
think she's she's a good egg and this
reinforces that. It shows, as I said, it
shows her her strength, her strength of
character, her presence of mind. Uh it's
it it shows the Camila we all know
exists.
>> Now, your book is obviously about the
relations between the palace and number
10. And a lot of people, I think I was
probably one of them, thought that the
current king might be a problem because
he got lots and lots of strong political
opinions, the famous black spider
letters, and he was worried about what
was going on in the Amazon and Brazil
and China and the Weaguers and so forth.
Um, and it was uh said at the time there
was going to be when he became king
there'd be trouble and there has been
absolutely none at all. Just talk me
through your your view of how the
current king's doing. Well, interesting
enough, even though I'd been a critic of
Charles from time to time, I thought
that he wouldn't be trouble. I thought
he'd be okay. Uh, and he signaled
that in part uh with a interview for his
70th birthday when he was asked if he'd
still be a meddling prince and he said
absolutely not. He knew the difference.
He wasn't that stupid. Uh and it's it's
interesting that he um in the first few
days after he exceeded to the throne uh
in his first three or four speeches he
referred to the constitution in every
single one and that was his way of
signaling that he was going to respect
the constitution. He was going to be a
good constitutional monarch and he's
found other ways of doing what he wants.
He doesn't make speeches. He doesn't
annoy ministers anymore, but he sort of
does things that brings people together
uh for receptions in Downings,
isn't he?
>> He's definitely enjoying. I mean, he had
he had a reception at Buckingham Palace
for the uh for people from the Windruff
gen gener windrush generation who'd had
their portraits painted and he didn't
need to say anything. He said it all he
said about how the importance of these
peoples to Britain uh just by having
them there. Good for Kingy Valentine.
Thank you very much indeed. Now, if
you've missed any of today's show, you
can listen back on catch up on both
Global Player and the LBC app where you
can stay up to date with all the latest
news and opinion. You can put your news
categories in the order you want them.
You can pause, you can rewind live radio
and listen to a range of podcasts. So,
download the official LBC app for free
from your app store. Now, coming up at
10 on LBC, it's Ben Kentish. But right
now, it's time for Ian Dale.
>> Thank you very much, Andrew. Good to
have you back. And it's back to school
for MPs today. And it's been a day when
the government has tried to regain the
political initiative.
>> Every asylum hotel will be closed for
good by driving down the numbers in
supported accommodation. Iette Cooper
has been making a statement.